• Runtimes

  • Licence questions

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The enterprise license states that a fee has to be paid every year to Esoteric Software in order to distribute a game that uses an Esoteric licensed runtime, else the game cannot be distributed:

  • If an engine uses a custom runtime, is there still a fee payment necessary every year in order to distribute the game?

If a team starts with the pro license, then creates a game that nets over 500K:

  • Will that game still be bound to the pro license?
  • Will it now be bound to the enterprise license, even though the game was developed with a pro license?
  • Or will the enterprise license requirements only kick in on subsequent titles?
  • Does the enterprise license requirements kick in for updates to the same title (such as bugfixes, balance adjustments, dlc updates)?

  • Nate

  • Messaggio #3
  • Questo post è in inglese

Hi megavlad,

As you mentioned, if you use the official Spine Runtimes (or any 3rd party software which contains the Spine Runtimes), then you need a Spine license (which can be Essential or Professional unless you qualify for Enterprise). However, similar to Photoshop or other authoring tools, you own everything you create with Spine: project files, exported JSON, binary, texture atlases, images, videos, etc. You can sell those, give them away free, or do anything you like with them. If you write your own runtimes to load your Spine JSON or binary data, your application won't be encumbered by the Spine Runtimes license. Please keep in mind your runtimes would need to be a clean room implementation and must not contain any portions of the Spine Runtimes, else the Spine Runtimes license would apply. We put enormous effort into developing and maintaining the Spine Runtimes. I hope you find them to be a pleasure to work with and a great ROI versus an in-house solution.

megavlad ha scritto

If a team starts with the pro license, then creates a game that nets over 500K:

  • Will that game still be bound to the pro license?
  • Will it now be bound to the enterprise license, even though the game was developed with a pro license?
  • Or will the enterprise license requirements only kick in on subsequent titles?
  • Does the enterprise license requirements kick in for updates to the same title (such as bugfixes, balance adjustments, dlc updates)?

A Spine license is required for the distribution of the Spine Runtimes. If you have Spine Professional and exceed the 500k annual revenue limit, then your Spine license is no longer valid (please contact us for a refund of your Spine Professional purchase) and you need Spine Enterprise to continue distributing applications containing the Spine Runtimes. Note with a single, valid Spine license you may distribute any number of applications containing the Spine Runtimes.

If you wish your application which contains the Spine Runtimes to not be encumbered by the Spine Runtimes license, we offer a per-product license. For a one-time fee, a single product can use the Spine Runtimes in perpetuity, without the need for a valid Spine license. Please contact us for more details if you are interested: contact@esotericsoftware.com

EDIT: Spine's licensing has been revised to allow continuing to use the Spine Runtimes without renewing your Spine Enterprise license. There is no longer a need for one-time product fee. Please see here:
Blog: Our new licensing explained

So, if a small company develops 10 small games that use the Spine runtime using the Pro license, and then on their 11th game they go over 500K per year, do they now owe royalty on all the 11 games?

And a final question: If a company goes over 500K in a year, will they be forever bound to the Enterprise license, even if in subsequent years they make less than 500K? Or does the license revere back to the Pro license in the years they make less than 500K?

  • Nate

  • Messaggio #5
  • Questo post è in inglese
megavlad ha scritto

So, if a small company develops 10 small games that use the Spine runtime using the Pro license, and then on their 11th game they go over 500K per year, do they now owe royalty on all the 11 games?

A single Spine license is sufficient to publish any number of products containing the Spine Runtimes, so a single Spine Enterprise license would cover all 11 games. If use of the Spine editor is no longer required, the Enterprise license can be provisioned for zero users, solely for distribution of the Spine Runtimes.

EDIT: Spine's licensing has been revised to allow continuing to use the Spine Runtimes without renewing your Spine Enterprise license. Please see here:
Blog: Our new licensing explained

megavlad ha scritto

And a final question: If a company goes over 500K in a year, will they be forever bound to the Enterprise license, even if in subsequent years they make less than 500K? Or does the license revere back to the Pro license in the years they make less than 500K?

The required license would change back to Professional. While not impossible and it's good to think through all the possibilities, we've never had this situation occur.

Thanks for the answers. I appreciate them.

The answer to the question about the 10 games doesn't provide the info that I'm looking for, however. Essentially, what I'm interested to know is if 10 games are published, then the 11th triggers the Enterprise (which has a royalty fee/product fee), and then the company decides not to renew the Spine licenses. Are they now liable for royalties for the previous 10 games, even though they were developed with the Pro license?

What I'm hoping to hear is that if a company develops a product/game with a Pro license, then that product/game is bound by that license, regardless of what happens in the future. If they then develop a subsequent product/game with an enterprise license, they are then bound by the enterprise license for that subsequent product/game. But, what it sounds like is that a product developed with a Pro license can, in the future, be bound by a different license, if the triggering situation occurs, potentially creating a royalty bomb if the enterprise license is no longer Renewed.

We have to take these issues into consideration for contract purposes with 3rd parties.

  • Nate

  • Messaggio #7
  • Questo post è in inglese

If it worked as you described, an individual could purchase Essential and create a game to "bind" it to Essential, then sell it to Microsoft (for example) for $1 and Microsoft could distribute it without royalties. It doesn't make sense for it to work that way.

At the core of it: distributing applications which contain the Spine Runtimes requires a valid Spine license. If you have 11 apps and then cross the threshold where Enterprise is required, your options are:
1) purchase the annual Enterprise license and continue distributing any number of apps containing the Spine Runtimes (minimum cost $2200/year for zero users if the Spine editor is not needed),
2) purchase a Spine Runtimes license per product which contains the Spine Runtimes (email us), or
3) stop distributing apps containing the Spine Runtimes (eg develop an in-house solution to replace the Spine Runtimes, or switch to spritesheets/etc).

I've deleted your post and locked this thread. Such aggressiveness is not welcome on a public forum. If you'd like to continue discussion, please email us. I will still try to clarify things for you:

If it worked like you want, anyone could bypass the Enterprise license simply by having an individual "bind" an application and then pass it off to a large company. How your "binding" concept would actually work is vague.

As explained above, you own what you make using Spine, just like you own images made using Photoshop. Spine differs from Photoshop in that all game toolkits can already display images

you don't need a runtime to display your Photoshop assets. Displaying skeletal animations is a lot more complex and so we provide runtime libraries to integrate into your applications. Rather than licensing the Spine Runtimes separately, we provide them as part of licensing Spine, as described in the posts above.

I'll go over the options again:

1) You can choose not to use the Spine Runtimes. If you are contemplating other animation tools, considering that many tools similar to Spine do not provide runtimes at all (or they are of poor quality). Creating your own runtimes (for any animation tool) will be a lot more costly than licensing Spine Enterprise.

2) You can license Spine to use the Spine Runtimes. If you are continuing development with Spine then you'll already have a Spine license so this option is essentially free.

3) Or, you can pay a per-product license fee to license the Spine Runtimes for a single product. This option is standard in the software industry for products which are libraries or components that are integrated into your applications (such as Scaleform). It makes sense if you are going to sell your application to someone who does not have a Spine license, or you otherwise don't want your application encumbered by the Spine Runtimes license.

Again, Spine differs from typical boxed products because Spine provides the optional Spine Runtimes. Spine can be thought of as two products: 1) the Spine editor, and 2) the Spine Runtimes. For convenience for most customers, we provide the Spine Runtimes to anyone licensing Spine. If that doesn't work for you, please consider the per-product Spine Runtimes licensing.